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Lews

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1

Sunday, August 5th 2012, 6:08pm

Discussion: Green name

After my post about the changes I'd like to see I realised that there is still quite a lot of debate about the "Green name" option.

First off I'll explain how the old system works, then I'll outline the reasons why I don't like the current green name system.

White name: Can be attacked
Green name: Cannot be attacked


The old system:

First off, as most people will know, Loong is originally a chinese game. Gamigo acquired a license to run a European and North American server from the creators of the game in China. There are several other versions of the game, including a Russian and Vietnamese client. All of the other versions of Loong do not have any green name system, it is unique to our server.

The system they still use, for us the "old system", is briefly explained like this: Towns, e.g. Phoenix Village, Yellow Emperor Castle, Heavenly Dragon Castle, were safe haven for anyone but "murderers", e.g. those with rage, or that had enough morals to be yellow name or worse. For as long as you were in a town you were green named if you wanted to. Once you left the boundaries of a town, however, you turned white named.

However, if you were killed whilst white named you could "Revive at home city", then return to the area you died at knowing that you would remain green named for the next 10 minutes.

This system allowed people to afk in Cities, and if killed whilst questing, to have a way of completing the quest in that area and moving on, without worrying about being attacked. Even if they had to stay in that area for a prolonged period, and the killers had the patience to wait 10 minutes for a kill each time, it would mean dieing 3 times in 30 minutes... acceptable to most people I think.

I think the issue was caused because people did not realise they had the option to revive in home city and get the 10 minute green name. They simply revived where they were and instantly got killed again. That is why in my thread about changes I suggest that an explanation of the old system, if we were to revert to it, was made clear for every player.

I think that covers most of the facts, I'll move onto the new system now.

Permanent Green name system:

I know that for a lot of people, this system sounds great. You get to go about your business without the worry of getting killed by that really powerful guy that you don't stand a chance against. Great. BUT, it's a lot more complicated than that.

Loong, as a whole, is a PvP game. The whole game mechanics are PvP orientated, as you will all know, at high levels the majority of PvE becomes rather trivial, with level 90+ players easily handling large groups of mobs, and soloing the instances.

However, for PvP the game has a lot going on. In my opinion green names break that. I've listed how below:

  • Okay, so green name is for people who don't want to PvP, white name then is for people who want to PvP. I want to PvP, so I log white name, then all of a sudden I get killed by someone I want to PvP with. That person then runs away and relogs green name, he's killed me, I have no way of realiating, as he is now permanently green named until he wants to get me again. That is one reason I dislike green name.
  • Secondly, the green name mechanic turns Zhuque Trading Quests for guild funds into a monotonous grind, where as in reality, the TQs are meant to be a risky race from one safe haven (City) to another, to get funds for your guild, to allow your guild to bid on a relic and participate in a fight that has excellent rewards. People running the TQs are MEANT to be at risk of getting attacked, it's part of the game. Green name ruins that aspect of it, and further makes any guild with a high enough funds limit (easy enough to get) able to bid on a relic, which in turn leads to a LOT of problems regarding fake bids etc. The system as it is simply doesn't work as it should.
If I wanted to troll I would tell people who like the green name to go play a single player game, or hellokittyonline, but I would rather people read my argument, and decide for themselves which system is better for the server as a whole, not just for themselves, because they don't like dieing. I remember a lot more people having a lot more fun in 1.3 than I do now, that's including the Relic fights.

I would also have no problem with raising the current "low level green name" protection to level 60 if people felt that low levels would be under pressure if the cap for this system remained at level 40.


Discuss.
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2

Sunday, August 5th 2012, 7:24pm

If all the events are put back again the will be no severe issue with pking of low lvls because high lvls will be busy doing their events which the standard day should be filled with.

In the kingdom of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

byakujin

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Sunday, August 5th 2012, 11:29pm

I remember playing before the permanent green name while there were all these events for high levels to do which you think will keep them intrested enough to not grief people who don't stand a chance, all they wanted to do was hang out in Phoenix and kill lowbies who were foolishly trying to level up, and while you may think getting killed every 10 minutes is fine, it really isn't that good when you take into account that A) They make no progress at all while the bored highbies kill them at every opportunity and B) unless you really suck you don't get killed more than a few times a week if you go for PvE and just quest to get levels and/or gold.

I am not saying that the current system is perfect, it does remove some element of gameplay from the trade quests (Though for a guild that has no intention of entering guild wars and only uses the funds to upgrade their guild and allow it's players to gain experience trough the quests, members of a different guild hunting them down wherever they happen to travel outside of a town would be annoying) Personally I think a middle ground should be achievable without having to do any more than tweak the green name system.

Possible tweaks?

A time limit on relogging while white named if you have participated in PvP

Guilds being able to opt in to certain quests and having them unable to take trade quests without removing PvP protection first

More PvP events with better rewards for fighting players near your own level

Removal of green name option entirely after a certain level (I would guess 85-90 would be reasonable from what I have seen in the arenas and training grounds when there are actually people using them instead of complaining about there being no PvP on Loong anymore)
Good players make a poor game successful, bad players will kill even the best game ever made. Which do you want to be?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "byakujin" (Aug 6th 2012, 12:13am)


4

Monday, August 6th 2012, 1:34am

Interesting, I've been playing at that time and I never been pked during lvling.
Ppl were pked during TDE in pv so basically to not be pked "all the time" all one had to do is not to do TDE or not do it in PV. Adapt to the game and not make the game adapt to you, especially when you not sure what will be the results of those game changes.

In the kingdom of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

hiji

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Monday, August 6th 2012, 2:42am

the only map ppl would get pk'd at outside a safe area would be phoenix village. u do quests there till lvl45 or something. watchu mean not able to make any progress? just mq can u get a lvl up atleast once a day. once ur questing in zhulu u wont be bothered by pkers really o.O

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Monday, August 6th 2012, 8:27am

well, when you are levelling in PV and you get killed either on the way to a quest or while you'redoing the quest, then again when you go back to try it for the nth time without being able to complete any of them, you don't get anywhere, PKers never bothered to find out if you were doing TDE or just questing, and in my experience mentors weren't always all that useful to their apprentices, though I could have just had the bad ones. Either way, I'm pretty sure a middle ground could be found that would stop mindless PKing of people who would never stand a chance of even getting ready to hit back while still letting high levels randomly go out and kill people instead of complaining about there being no PvP while none of them go to the training grounds in Zhulu where PvP is much more convenient with all the vendors and the ability to not have to run through a ton of other places just to get back to where you want to fight. On a side note, it seems that the green name only pisses off people who either can't be bothered to fight at their level, can't fight at their level, or just enjoy going around and making low level's gaming experience more annoying than fun, especially seeing as the general opinion seems to be that only level 80+ should try to PvP.
Good players make a poor game successful, bad players will kill even the best game ever made. Which do you want to be?

hiji

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Monday, August 6th 2012, 12:55pm

yea thats the thing im tryin to say here u dont even have to lvl in pv cuz mentor quests give u enough exp to skip that whole map in a few days. as for tders in pv, u pretty much just abusing the system shudnt have mercy on them if u ask me.. o.o

Lews

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Monday, August 6th 2012, 7:32pm

well, when you are levelling in PV and you get killed either on the way to a quest or while you're doing the quest, then again when you go back to try it for the nth time without being able to complete any of them, you don't get anywhere.
You showed in your previous reply that you understood the ten minute green rule. I don't understand how it can take you 10 minutes or more to just get to the quest. On average a quest will take 10 minutes from start to finish, even going slowly it will take a maximum of 20 minutes.

Regardless of how long it took you, with the old system there was always the option of asking for help in world chat, or your guild. I know a lot of high levels that thoroughly enjoy hunting PKers... that is yet another aspect of the game that has been removed.

Either way, I'm pretty sure a middle ground could be found that would stop mindless PKing of people who would never stand a chance of even getting ready to hit back while still letting high levels randomly go out and kill people instead of complaining about there being no PvP while none of them go to the training grounds in Zhulu where PvP is much more convenient with all the vendors and the ability to not have to run through a ton of other places just to get back to where you want to fight.

Artifical PvP is great for training, sure, but do you really expect people to hang around in the "training" ground because it is convenient when you die? That really isn't the point of PvP.

On a side note, it seems that the green name only pisses off people who either can't be bothered to fight at their level, can't fight at their level, or just enjoy going around and making low level's gaming experience more annoying than fun, especially seeing as the general opinion seems to be that only level 80+ should try to PvP.

Actually, I can and do fight with my level, and I do not enjoy making low level's gaming experience more annoying than fun... Infact, I try to help them as much as I can.

It annoys me that people automatically think that anyone advocating the old system is an evil nasty pker only here to ruin everyone elses day.

I have had a few people message me ingame saying that they want green name to stay because they remember when they were low level getting killed by high levels with nothing else to do. So I ask them why they still play, they all say that they want to level up and get stronger. Why? So that they won't get killed by that person anymore, so that they could get revenge... except they can't get killed by them anymore anyway (because of green name), and they won't even be able to attack anyone because they will all be green name. So many new players now get to mid level and stop playing because they have no reason to, they're completely safe behind green name, with nothing to do but grind for the sake of it.

At least with the old system people that got killed could say that they would level fast and get better to kill that person. People could ask for help from high levels, and make friends, form a bond with a guild, defend and help each other. None of that exists now, this game has become a monotonous grind to get stronger for ultimately no reason, unless you decide to play white name.
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Lews

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9

Monday, August 6th 2012, 8:02pm

I could really go on all day about the ill affects of green name...

I just want to make a further argument against peoples qualms about the old systems "abuse" when people were "repetitively" killed whilst questing, predominantly, in Phoenix Village:
I guess the main areas where the abuse occurred were Yiyang barracks and Luoyan Camp, where the masses did TDE for gold and exp.

I'd like to point out that in the new version this issue no longer exists, TDE limit has been reduced to 20, and now everyone has artifacts it has become much easier to complete TDE at your own level area. Very few people continue to do TDE in PV anymore, despite the now guaranteed safety of green name.

This point eradicates the main reason for high levels to hang out in PV outside of the main town, and means that low levels would, for the most part, be able to level in peace in those areas.

I really welcome anyone else who feels that the white name system was that terrible to reply here, with a well thought out and justified reply. But please, do not reply with comments such as "I got PKed all the time and couldn't make progress because I was hunted every minute that I was online by bored level 90s with nothing else to do." If this happened (which I doubt, without extreme provocation on your behalf) I would like a detailed description of what level, where it happened and why.
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10

Monday, August 6th 2012, 11:42pm

Simple solution, ask the devs for channels. Non-PvP and PvP channels, like channel 9-10 is PvE, while the rest is free to do. But since we got already an answer from the old CM about this suggestion.
So live with the PK or avoid it, simple.

11

Tuesday, August 7th 2012, 10:54pm

Simple solution, ask the devs for channels. Non-PvP and PvP channels, like channel 9-10 is PvE, while the rest is free to do. But since we got already an answer from the old CM about this suggestion.
So live with the PK or avoid it, simple.
u think they can do a chan ? lol keep on dreaming... they couldnt do that b4 when loong was alive o,o how can they now ? lol intresting and if they add more chan dont u think they gonna be ghost towns everwere ?

Lews

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Tuesday, August 7th 2012, 11:10pm

Adding a channel solves only a few of many issues... Unless you want to start limiting what is possible in certain channels further, such as no guild quests in green name channels, which is honestly too much effort.

I am not proposing further work is done to change Loong, I am putting forward an argument to revert back to how the game was originally designed.

If people insist that more needs to be done to protect low levels then make the green name optional up to level 60/70. That way the effort required is minimal from a developers perspective and the system would work 90% the way it was meant to.
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Lews

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Friday, August 10th 2012, 7:30pm

Another example of how green name is bad, it is a specific example but highlights a problem that I'm sure will and does occur frequently since Green name was introduced:

My wife and another friend have recently reached level 100 and are working on the daily Dragon Blood quests. The quests take a long time as they require obtaining 100 of a certain type of item per person. The last two times they have began those quests they have had issues with a certain player who deliberately steals their mobs and makes life hard for them.

This can occur at any level with the majority of quests ingame, and, thanks to Green name there is nothing anyone can do about it.

In the old system both groups would have been white named, and if one begun stealing from the other then it's possible to solve the solution with PvP.

Green name stops PKers (that there was already a solution for), but encourages people to annoy good social behaviour and do exactly as they wish without any regard to other people.

I'm judging by the lack of responses to this thread that either people agree with me and having nothing else to add, or can't put a good argument for green name through in a constructive manner, or maybe just don't care either way, in which case reverting back to the official system wouldn't be a problem.
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Lews

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Saturday, August 11th 2012, 5:13pm

Yet another example of how green name is bad:

BOTTING

It has become a lot worse in 2.4 for several reasons, partly because dismantling yields mats far easier than collecting does, and also primarily because of green name.

Dismantling makes it very easy to get certain materials, however it is not possible to get gold ore or silk from them, but don't worry with Green name you can sit any alt on a tree in Panlong and auto-collect all day without the worry that some (perfectly justified) player will come and kill you.


(For those that can't see that player's name is loong833, LINGQ1 is the guild, and she bots most days in Panlong.)

This theoretically could be stopped if we had a GM presence ingame, but we don't. This is an example of where Green name makes more work for our (slightly imaginary) GM team, where as the old system allowed the player base to police ourselves.

I've put forth several arguments in this thread about the bad effects of Green name on the game, none of which, I feel are minor, NOONE has posted a constructive argument for Green name. I'll ask again, why do we even have this system?
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Glady

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Saturday, August 11th 2012, 7:16pm

I have to agree and disagree with you Lews.

Althought i don't find the green name option a good one for our game especially since it's pvp based,that's not the reason we have botting.We have botting cause for the moment we don't have any active GM that can be objective and that can at least kick the botters.

Also how u said it would at least be a good thing if they made it optional untill level 60-70 or even 80 and from there u should be always white and able to attack or get attacked.

hiji

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Saturday, August 11th 2012, 8:00pm

ent we don't have any active GM that can be objective and that can at least kick the botters.

Also how u said it would at least be a good thing if they made it optional untill level 60-70 or even 80 and from there u should be always white and able to attack or get attacked.
yeaaaaa.. botting also happend ALOT .-. when there were gm's around in 2.4

17

Monday, August 13th 2012, 12:48am

ent we don't have any active GM that can be objective and that can at least kick the botters.

Also how u said it would at least be a good thing if they made it optional untill level 60-70 or even 80 and from there u should be always white and able to attack or get attacked.
yeaaaaa.. botting also happend ALOT .-. when there were gm's around in 2.4
Botting has been around for as long as I can recall.
Originally I would see botters in YEC Zhoulu just East of the Castle and they would be there overnight - all day as Green Name afk. I would see the same person several days in a row never move.

Eventually I leveled up and went to Panlong Valley for quests where I encountered the famous bot-collecting area. Again, these botters had green names and you could not kill them. Yet they idle'd there 24/7, as I do not know the gm activity in-game ... I suspect more interaction is needed on the gm's to monitor this.

Today's problem: Some of these botters are above the level of the old system where you would normally turn white name. Now everyone can enable green.

Solution? Make upper areas White Name Only. Keep the green names on HDC, PV, YEC and if any player enters a high level area there name should no longer be protected green.


More importantly,
Luke likes to look at himself in the mirror :love:

hiji

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Monday, August 13th 2012, 1:32am



More importantly,
Luke likes to look at himself in the mirror :love:
me too bruh..me too ._.

19

Monday, August 13th 2012, 2:33am

Quoted from "Luke"



More importantly,
Luke likes to look at himself in the mirror :love:
me too bruh..me too ._.

Hiji luv you bro, we should totally look him mirrors together and shop for hair products. Lets meet at a café for some spacecakes before we head off bro.

:thumbsup:


~
Luke will have dreams of hiji tonight in the mirror.

hiji

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20

Monday, August 13th 2012, 4:17am

lmao sure but i think we dont live in the same continent so that mite be hard >:o

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